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Poster: smgarcia Date: Jun 3, 2008 10:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: What is so special about Veneta Dark Star?

I've read a number of personal reviews that this Dark Star is, perhaps or arguably, the best Dark Star ever. Or it is in the Top 5. I listened to it last night and I wasn't that impressed - there weren't too many mood changes or exploratory playing. Rather it sounded to me like a long jazz jam. In fact, I can think of at least 5 Dark Stars in 1972 that top 8/27/72, including two from the previous week (8/21 and 8/24, 8/21 being the better one), obviously 5/11, 9/24, 9/10 and maybe 4/8 and 7/26.

I think it's a very good Dark Star but I would grade it a B+ and on a good day A-. It reminds me more of a Playin' In The Band jam (and I love those too, especially from 1972).

Any thoughts? The Veneta show is very good but I just don't listen to it all that much because I have found more memorable versions of songs from other concerts in 1972.

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Poster: fireeagle Date: Jun 4, 2008 10:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: What is so special about Veneta Dark Star?

there is no best ds ever and they r all so special

its the matter of momentary preference

i love veneta ds, but id rather listen to http://www.archive.org/details/gd72-03-23.sbd.goodbear.137.sbefail.shnf or http://www.archive.org/details/gd72-04-08.sbd.giles-jeffm.2534.sbeok.shnf or http://www.archive.org/details/gd72-04-29.aud.vernon.5250.sbeok.shnf. spring 72 dstars r much harder, sharper and more explosive than those mellow & lazy summer 72 dstars

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Poster: smgarcia Date: Jun 4, 2008 10:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: What is so special about Veneta Dark Star?

I still can't get enough of the last 15 minutes of the 11-11-1973 Dark Star. I love how Jerry makes those airplane noises with his guitar as they move into MLB Jam. It's fucking brilliant. I also love 5/11/72 but I can't listen to that anymore because it gives me bittersweet (and bad) memories of an awful event that happened to me a few months back.

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Poster: mcgannahan Date: Jun 3, 2008 12:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: What is so special about Veneta Dark Star?

and it's horribly out of tune

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Poster: yesss! Date: Jun 3, 2008 12:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: What is so special about Veneta Dark Star?

but duuude, they were TRIPPING!!!

as silly as that sounds i think it may actually account for the extra attention that this show gets and the extra meaning that people assign to it. it is kind of understandable given that many of us have had valuable experiences listening to the band in similar states of mind and so we assume, or want to think, that the recording of the performance captures the sound of a pure psychedelic experience as god speaks through the band in a precious moment of cosmic enlightenment and transcendent bliss. but really it was uncomfortably hot and the instruments wouldn't stay in tune and there were movie cameras everywhere and the acid probably made things kind of confusing. of course it was 1972 and the band was on a roll so the music is still stunning at times, but i agree that there are better performances of most of the material from that year (and even earlier that week!). the birdsong is still one of my favorite versions ever, and i like the playin and greatest story and sing me back home pretty well, but i agree that this is not a top 5 dark star.

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Poster: He Live's Date: Jun 3, 2008 8:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Good QUESTION.... allow me.....


Photobucket

this is a fluid and dynamic version of the Dead's most TEXTURAL improvisational piece. PLAYIN IN THE BAND, jazz bent, exploratory, heavily reliant on propulsive rhythm, TRUCKIN' with its excursions into blues-drenched trippery and THE OTHER ONE -- muscley and aggressive, acid-drenched, evoking the Kesey crew in its EDGINESS.... these are The Dead's main, big time improvisatory vehicles and then there's DARK STAR, like a tone poem, it is a probing of the emotional capacities of the performers, along the lines of Albert Ayler and Ornette Coleman -- music made from scratch in the moment.... the melodic material they begin with is thin and whispy, they begin with footsteps and intentions and percussion backing, they work their way into it and follow the muse -- sometimes it is dark and doesnt make any sense, other times they are like masters of The Raga and lightning strikes.... and there are brushes with greatness.....

it helps if you see the video maybe -- but this is one of their ALL TIME versions....






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Poster: craven714 Date: Jun 3, 2008 10:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The look on Jerrys face...

"let me tell you a joke about a naked dancing man.......what..........?............
OOhhh, there is one right behind me, isn't there?"

and I thank you He Lives for shedding some light on the sun. &nice pic.
Lets not deny the obvious here on yet another relative subject.

Oh forget it. Im off to start a thread bashing 4-17-72 Tivolis Big RxR Blues ..............excuse me

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Poster: stratocaster Date: Jun 3, 2008 4:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: What is so special about Veneta Dark Star?

I would put it up there, it has some great jams, including one of the better Phil solos...they coalesce into a nice apocolyptic finish that segues into El Paso...today, I might give 02-13-1970 the edge, tomorrow who knows...

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Poster: DarkStar1972 Date: Jun 3, 2008 7:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: What is so special about Veneta Dark Star?

dont forget the sicko video for it too

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Poster: veblen Date: Jun 3, 2008 7:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: What is so special about Veneta Dark Star?

you are killing me...after seeing the reference to 70-02-13 I thought I would check it out since I am going through a 69-71 dark star phase...but somehow I lost DP#4...

definitely frustrating when you have a particular date in mind and can't hear it...

anyway, rather than think of a replacement at the moment I am re-listening to 69-11-02 from the Family Dog on the Great Highway...

those thirty minute ones take a few listens to digest properly...well I guess they all require at least a few initial listens it is just that the thirty minute ones take longer to cycle through...

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Poster: Morning Dewd Date: Jun 3, 2008 9:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: What is so special about Veneta Dark Star?

This is one of my favorites from 1970:http://www.archive.org/details.php?identifier=gd1970-09-19.mtx.chappell.SB14.31510.sbeok.flac16&;newflash=1

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Poster: Zaorish Date: Jun 4, 2008 9:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: What is so special about Veneta Dark Star?

Man I love that one. 9-19-70 and 7-13-84 are my top 2. I used to be a big fan of 2-13-70, but I musta listened to it like 40 times and the other ones I just mentioned are more melodic, less jazzy.

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Jun 5, 2008 7:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: What is so special about Veneta Dark Star?

Perhaps I'm in the minority here but I prefer the latter-day Dark Stars to the early 70's versions which always seem marred at some point by feedback/space/spinalTap-type/Phil-Atonal-Bass indulgence.

Check out http://www.archive.org/details/gd79-01-10.gatto.kempka.307.sbeok.shnf

for a great, jamming Dark Star more jazzy than spacey...I also agree with the '84 Greek encore version being terrific and my favorite of all may well be the 12/31/78 Farewell to Winterland DarkStar.

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Poster: veblen Date: Jun 3, 2008 9:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: What is so special about Veneta Dark Star?

yes, it is exceptional and it always seems to receive its due when people are listing "favorites"...funny, but I think that the majority of my neighbors even now that version...plus I really love the st stephen that follows it...

all of a sudden I am at the Dream Bowl on 69-02-22, since I saw that dark star highly recommended...and it is indeed excellante!!!

http://www.archive.org/details/gd69-02-22.sbd.owen.7860.sbeok.shnf

and then it will be on to a re-listen of veneta in 72...

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Jun 3, 2008 8:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: What is so special about Veneta Dark Star?

I'm one of those who don't think the Veneta Dark Star is so special....there are probably twenty other Stars from that year I'd sooner hear again. (And the El Paso is quite the buzzkill.) But I guess a lot of people like this show for the 'atmosphere', the sound quality, the video....and the standout songs. Bird Song and Playing are stupendous, which is surprising since Bird Song was just reintroduced the month before, and Playing was still in its relatively short form.

And by the way, I also prefer the 11-2-69 Star to 2-13-70...

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Poster: He Live's Date: Jun 3, 2008 11:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: What is so special about Veneta Dark Star?

well obviously this is one of the all time playins as well... and right in the sweetspot at 18 minutes -- this is right when this song was really blossoming.... they pulled off a 19 minute version at the strand in may of Europe 72.... that is when the tune really started taking off from the stiffer, stifled under 10 minute version. so it is not surprising to see it on the front burner at this show..... and cooked up with good seasoning at that!

the dead were simply, historically ON this night -- THAT is why the versions are great... Bird Song, a nearly formelss tune is built for interpretation. the song received a meditative attention unique to their songbook from the first time it was played... a loosey-goosey proposition from the get....